From elias at nordling.nu Tue Jun 23 14:22:46 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Tue Jun 23 14:24:24 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report Message-ID: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> Randy and I are doing some testing of Quatre Bras to see if the rules hold together. They seem to, with some tinkering, as shown in the latest version attached. I could still use a volunteer that would edit the tables into a more usable format. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Build022.doc Type: application/msword Size: 159744 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090623/a3b6f493/Build022-0001.doc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Optionalsbuild007.doc Type: application/msword Size: 50688 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090623/a3b6f493/Optionalsbuild007-0001.doc -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NAoWTables Build 10.xls Type: application/vnd.ms-excel Size: 48640 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090623/a3b6f493/NAoWTablesBuild10-0001.xls From elias at nordling.nu Tue Jun 23 14:27:28 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Tue Jun 23 14:27:38 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A40CA30.2020603@nordling.nu> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090623/88fb818e/attachment.html From michael.waters at navy.mil Tue Jun 23 16:13:32 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Tue Jun 23 16:14:24 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> Message-ID: > I could still use a volunteer that would edit the tables into > a more usable format. Define "useful" for me and I'm your man. Michael Waters NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 Flight Vehicle Performance Software Development Team NAS Patuxent River Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 301-757-0595 301-342-8597 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com > [mailto:napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com] On Behalf Of Elias Nordling > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:23 > To: napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report > > Randy and I are doing some testing of Quatre Bras to see if > the rules hold together. They seem to, with some tinkering, > as shown in the latest version attached. > > I could still use a volunteer that would edit the tables into > a more usable format. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090623/fed97a2e/smime.bin From hanskishel at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 18:11:34 2009 From: hanskishel at gmail.com (Hans Kishel) Date: Tue Jun 23 18:11:40 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> Message-ID: Elias, I would be happy to edit the tables. As well as create vassal mods for any of the games for playtesting. I will be at Origins this week but as soon as I am home again I will start working on the tables. Hans On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:22 AM, Elias Nordling wrote: > Randy and I are doing some testing of Quatre Bras to see if the rules hold > together. They seem to, with some tinkering, as shown in the latest version > attached. > > I could still use a volunteer that would edit the tables into a more usable > format. > > _______________________________________________ > Napgnomes mailing list > Napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > http://yxa.extundo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/napgnomes > > -- ______________________________ Hans Kishel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090623/eeaf2544/attachment.html From hanskishel at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 18:17:54 2009 From: hanskishel at gmail.com (Hans Kishel) Date: Tue Jun 23 18:18:09 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> Message-ID: Sorry Michael, I did not see that you had already responded. Did not mean to step on any toes. hans On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 9:13 AM, Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 < michael.waters@navy.mil> wrote: > > I could still use a volunteer that would edit the tables into > > a more usable format. > > Define "useful" for me and I'm your man. > > Michael Waters > NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 > Flight Vehicle Performance > Software Development Team > NAS Patuxent River > Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 > 301-757-0595 > 301-342-8597 (fax) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com > > [mailto:napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com] On Behalf Of Elias Nordling > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:23 > > To: napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > > Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report > > > > Randy and I are doing some testing of Quatre Bras to see if > > the rules hold together. They seem to, with some tinkering, > > as shown in the latest version attached. > > > > I could still use a volunteer that would edit the tables into > > a more usable format. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Napgnomes mailing list > Napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > http://yxa.extundo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/napgnomes > > -- ______________________________ Hans Kishel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090623/278f18c1/attachment.htm From elias at nordling.nu Tue Jun 23 18:37:50 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Tue Jun 23 18:38:01 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090623/070877d2/attachment.html From michael.waters at navy.mil Tue Jun 23 19:00:57 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Tue Jun 23 19:01:12 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> Message-ID: Elias, Do you want to keep it in a spreadsheet, or do you want it in a document? Do you want Microsoft, Open Office, csv files, plain text files, etc.? I'll continue along the Microsoft Excel appoach unless you have an objection. From there it's simple enough to convert to Open Office, etc., if you'd prefer. Hans, No toes stepped on here. If I can handle this task, it gives you more time for that VASSAL module. Which I really should learn to do someday ... Michael Waters NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 Flight Vehicle Performance Software Development Team NAS Patuxent River Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 301-757-0595 301-342-8597 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com > [mailto:napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com] On Behalf Of Elias Nordling > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:38 > To: napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > Subject: Re: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report > > Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 skrev: > > I could still use a volunteer that would edit > the tables into > a more usable format. > > > > Define "useful" for me and I'm your man. > > > Anything that is A) editable, and B) printable in as few > pages as possible. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090623/88833905/smime-0001.bin From elias at nordling.nu Tue Jun 23 20:30:44 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Tue Jun 23 20:30:53 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 skrev: > Elias, > > Do you want to keep it in a spreadsheet, or do you want it in a document? Do you want Microsoft, Open Office, csv files, plain text files, etc.? > > I'll continue along the Microsoft Excel appoach unless you have an objection. From there it's simple enough to convert to Open Office, etc., if you'd prefer. > Excel is fine, if organized in a better way into fewer pages in printable format. Make sure to have some margins sideways to make it fitt in non-US paper format. Thanks for the help! From elias at nordling.nu Tue Jun 23 20:40:34 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Tue Jun 23 20:40:45 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A4121A2.4070809@nordling.nu> Hans Kishel skrev: > As well as create vassal mods for any of the games for playtesting. I'm not sure if Adam has already put someone on the job. Have you, Adam? If not, the job is yours! Great! Thanks a lot for the help! From vandermeulen at univ-tours.fr Tue Jun 23 21:10:52 2009 From: vandermeulen at univ-tours.fr (fr) Date: Tue Jun 23 21:11:06 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: <4A4121A2.4070809@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4121A2.4070809@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A4128BC.3030606@univ-tours.fr> Adam has. I think that a first version is done already, by the way. Fran?ois. > Hans Kishel skrev: >> As well as create vassal mods for any of the games for playtesting. > I'm not sure if Adam has already put someone on the job. Have you, Adam? > > If not, the job is yours! Great! Thanks a lot for the help! > _______________________________________________ > Napgnomes mailing list > Napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > http://yxa.extundo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/napgnomes From michael.waters at navy.mil Tue Jun 23 22:56:14 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Tue Jun 23 22:56:30 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/mixed-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090623/a2c63337/smime-0001.bin From elias at nordling.nu Wed Jun 24 14:53:04 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Wed Jun 24 14:53:13 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090624/84187260/attachment.html From michael.waters at navy.mil Wed Jun 24 17:57:27 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Wed Jun 24 17:57:49 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables In-Reply-To: <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> Message-ID: Having spent some up-close personal time with the tables, three things strike me. First, that for assaults and charges, most of the time we're dealing with three possible results - 0, 1, or 2 casualties inflicted. Second, that there are A LOT of tables that are used to generate one of those three results, depending on the exact circumstance. Third, that being based on a linear probability distribution (d10) rather than a gaussian distribution (2d6), it should be possible to reduce all assault/charge resolution into a matter of DRM's and raw casualty mods without the need for the tables at all. Say for instance if, after the MCs to determine repulse/rout/firefight, BOTH sides rolled for hits inflicted (or suffered), with the assumption that the default value of casualties inflicted is 1. So if you roll high (8+) you inflict 2 casualties, and if you roll low (2-) you inflict 0 casualties. Then DRMs could be applied for that roll depending on whether you passed your CTS or not, whether your opponent passed his CTS or not, and all the other DRM's for Columns defending vs line, total step size, etc. For instance, take the case of an assault where the Defender routs. If the attacker in that case has a mod of +1 his assault roll, then he'd inflict 2 casualties on a roll of 7+, and only inclict 0 casualties on a roll of 0 or 1. And if the defender in that case has a mod on his assault roll of -3, then he'd never inflict 2 casualties and only inflict 1 casualty of a roll of 6+. The plus side of this idea is that the condition-specific tables would go away, potentially saving on production costs by cutting the size of the playaids, and the assault/charge mechanism could be unified. The downside is that the exising mods would have to be scrubbed again for sanity. And that it's similar to GMT's T&G system. There's also something very un-Napoleonic about decimal math - but that's possibly a la Bataille influence. OTOH, since it mirrors the mechanics of TDC somewhat, maybe Adam will like it. Note that all this goes out the window if we revert to 8 step infantry units rather than 4 step infantry units. Michael Waters NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 Flight Vehicle Performance Software Development Team NAS Patuxent River Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 301-757-0595 301-342-8597 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com > [mailto:napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com] On Behalf Of Elias Nordling > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:53 > To: napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > Subject: Re: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report > > That looks fine! Not sure if it is a good idea or not to make > the tablesmore complex by combining them, but it gives a nice > comparison of regular vs initiative orders, and certainly > keeps the page count down. > > Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 skrev: > > Is this what you had in mind? I combined the Prep and > Init tables into one. I haven't added the modifiers and text > yet, but you should get the general idea. > > Michael Waters > NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 > Flight Vehicle Performance > Software Development Team > NAS Patuxent River > Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 > 301-757-0595 > 301-342-8597 (fax) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com > [mailto:napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com] On > Behalf Of Elias Nordling > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 14:31 > To: napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > Subject: Re: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report > > Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 skrev: > > > Elias, > > Do you want to keep it in a > spreadsheet, or do you want it > > > in a document? Do you want Microsoft, Open Office, csv > files, plain text files, etc.? > > > I'll continue along the Microsoft Excel > appoach unless you > > > have an objection. From there it's simple > enough to convert > to Open Office, etc., if you'd prefer. > > > > > > Excel is fine, if organized in a better way > into fewer pages > in printable format. Make sure to have some > margins sideways > to make it fitt in non-US paper format. > > Thanks for the help! > _______________________________________________ > Napgnomes mailing list > Napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > > http://yxa.extundo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/napgnomes > > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > Napgnomes mailing list > Napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > > http://yxa.extundo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/napgnomes > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090624/53154ead/smime.bin From michael.waters at navy.mil Wed Jun 24 19:40:52 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Wed Jun 24 19:41:20 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu><4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> Message-ID: Now that I think of it, my suggestion should involve rolling for losses SUFFERED rather than INFLICTED, so reverse the sign of mods, and 2- would be 2 losses suffered and 8+ would be 0 losses suffered. Michael Waters NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 Flight Vehicle Performance Software Development Team NAS Patuxent River Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 301-757-0595 301-342-8597 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com > [mailto:napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com] On Behalf Of > Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:57 > To: napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > Subject: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables > > Having spent some up-close personal time with the tables, > three things strike me. First, that for assaults and > charges, most of the time we're dealing with three possible > results - 0, 1, or 2 casualties inflicted. Second, that > there are A LOT of tables that are used to generate one of > those three results, depending on the exact circumstance. > Third, that being based on a linear probability distribution > (d10) rather than a gaussian distribution (2d6), it should be > possible to reduce all assault/charge resolution into a > matter of DRM's and raw casualty mods without the need for > the tables at all. > > Say for instance if, after the MCs to determine > repulse/rout/firefight, BOTH sides rolled for hits inflicted > (or suffered), with the assumption that the default value of > casualties inflicted is 1. So if you roll high (8+) you > inflict 2 casualties, and if you roll low (2-) you inflict 0 > casualties. Then DRMs could be applied for that roll > depending on whether you passed your CTS or not, whether your > opponent passed his CTS or not, and all the other DRM's for > Columns defending vs line, total step size, etc. > > For instance, take the case of an assault where the Defender > routs. If the attacker in that case has a mod of +1 his > assault roll, then he'd inflict 2 casualties on a roll of 7+, > and only inclict 0 casualties on a roll of 0 or 1. And if > the defender in that case has a mod on his assault roll of > -3, then he'd never inflict 2 casualties and only inflict 1 > casualty of a roll of 6+. > > The plus side of this idea is that the condition-specific > tables would go away, potentially saving on production costs > by cutting the size of the playaids, and the assault/charge > mechanism could be unified. The downside is that the exising > mods would have to be scrubbed again for sanity. And that > it's similar to GMT's T&G system. There's also something > very un-Napoleonic about decimal math - but that's possibly a > la Bataille influence. OTOH, since it mirrors the mechanics > of TDC somewhat, maybe Adam will like it. > > Note that all this goes out the window if we revert to 8 step > infantry units rather than 4 step infantry units. > > Michael Waters > NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 > Flight Vehicle Performance > Software Development Team > NAS Patuxent River > Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 > 301-757-0595 > 301-342-8597 (fax) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com > > [mailto:napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com] On Behalf Of > Elias Nordling > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:53 > > To: napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > > Subject: Re: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report > > > > That looks fine! Not sure if it is a good idea or not to make the > > tablesmore complex by combining them, but it gives a nice > comparison > > of regular vs initiative orders, and certainly keeps the page count > > down. > > > > Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 skrev: > > > > Is this what you had in mind? I combined the Prep and > Init tables > > into one. I haven't added the modifiers and text yet, but > you should > > get the general idea. > > > > Michael Waters > > NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 > > Flight Vehicle Performance > > Software Development Team > > NAS Patuxent River > > Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 > > 301-757-0595 > > 301-342-8597 (fax) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com > > [mailto:napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com] On > Behalf Of Elias > > Nordling > > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 14:31 > > To: napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > > Subject: Re: [Napgnomes] New rules, progress report > > > > Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 skrev: > > > > > > Elias, > > > > Do you want to keep it in a > > spreadsheet, or do you want it > > > > > > in a document? Do you want Microsoft, Open Office, csv > > files, plain text files, etc.? > > > > > > I'll continue along the Microsoft Excel > appoach unless you > > > > > > have an objection. From there it's simple > enough to convert > > to Open Office, etc., if you'd prefer. > > > > > > > > > > > > Excel is fine, if organized in a better way > into fewer pages > > in printable format. Make sure to have some > margins sideways > > to make it fitt in non-US paper format. > > > > Thanks for the help! > > _______________________________________________ > > Napgnomes mailing list > > Napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > > > > http://yxa.extundo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/napgnomes > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Napgnomes mailing list > > Napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > > > > http://yxa.extundo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/napgnomes > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090624/59b6e01a/smime-0001.bin From elias at nordling.nu Wed Jun 24 22:50:07 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Wed Jun 24 22:50:17 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090624/b2c378b5/attachment.htm From michael.waters at navy.mil Thu Jun 25 00:06:04 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Thu Jun 25 00:06:23 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables In-Reply-To: <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> Message-ID: > I think this is a case where separate tables will be cleaner > and easier for most users. With separate tables, it is also > much easier to fine-tune the probabilities for each outcome. > And, as you notice, the tables are calibrated for average > stacks of 4 or so. We'll see if they hold up if stacking goes > up. Waterloo will probably tell, it is hard to go more > crowded than that. Fair enough. I for one think I'll like 8 step units better, anyway - but Waterloo will tell. BTW, at the moment, in the Assault and Cav tables, rolling LOW is good for the player doing the rolling, but on the Prep and Initiative tables, rolling HIGH is better. This leads me to two questions - Is this intentional? If not, do you want me to reverse the prep/init table so that rolling low is better? (You really can't reverse the assault and cav tables, unless you also want reverse morale to make LOWER morale ratings better) Michael Waters NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 Flight Vehicle Performance Software Development Team NAS Patuxent River Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 301-757-0595 301-342-8597 (fax) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090624/d572a63b/smime.bin From elias at nordling.nu Thu Jun 25 00:12:45 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Thu Jun 25 00:12:50 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090625/322ea8e5/attachment.htm From michael.waters at navy.mil Thu Jun 25 00:47:04 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Thu Jun 25 00:47:25 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Rewording In-Reply-To: <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> Message-ID: Recommend changing X.1.1 Cavalry that is in a Morale State other than Normal may not initiate Cavalry Charges. To X.1.1 Cavalry must be in a "Normal" Morale State to initiate a Cavalry Charge. Michael Waters NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 Flight Vehicle Performance Software Development Team NAS Patuxent River Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 301-757-0595 301-342-8597 (fax) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090624/d49f7b88/smime-0001.bin From michael.waters at navy.mil Thu Jun 25 01:18:53 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Thu Jun 25 01:19:09 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables In-Reply-To: <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> Message-ID: Okay - what do the paranthesized values on the Successful Charge vs Infantry table for? Can't find it in the rules anywhere. It can't be a morale hit because the defender automatically routs, and it can't be casualties on the attacker since that's covered by the even/odd roll by the attacker. Also, when and to what are the die roll modifiers at the bottom (below the Charge repulsed table) supposed to be applied to, exactly? Michael Waters NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 Flight Vehicle Performance Software Development Team NAS Patuxent River Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 301-757-0595 301-342-8597 (fax) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090624/966ca8dd/smime.bin From michael.waters at navy.mil Thu Jun 25 01:24:52 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Thu Jun 25 01:25:07 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Page Numbering In-Reply-To: <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> Message-ID: Could you turn the page numbering feature please. As the rules don't have fixed numbers yet, it makes it rather difficult to flip back and forth looking for stuff when you don't know where you are in the first place (we in the Navy are experts at knowing whenever it is we don't know where we are). Michael Waters NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 Flight Vehicle Performance Software Development Team NAS Patuxent River Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 301-757-0595 301-342-8597 (fax) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090624/19983868/smime.bin From elias at nordling.nu Thu Jun 25 09:09:52 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Thu Jun 25 09:10:02 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Rewording In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A4322C0.4080209@nordling.nu> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090625/37a14121/attachment.htm From elias at nordling.nu Thu Jun 25 09:14:12 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Thu Jun 25 09:14:18 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A4323C4.6070402@nordling.nu> Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 skrev: > Okay - what do the paranthesized values on the Successful Charge vs Infantry table for? Can't find it in the rules anywhere. It can't be a morale hit because the defender automatically routs, and it can't be casualties on the attacker since that's covered by the even/odd roll by the attacker. > That leaves stragglers, which it is :-) The idea is that cavalry will mostly hunt down its victims, but if there are many defenders or few cavalry, some will get away. > Also, when and to what are the die roll modifiers at the bottom (below the Charge repulsed table) supposed to be applied to, exactly? > To rolls on the table. The defenders only roll for a 50% chance of a morale reduction, so no modifiers. The table covers both repulses and successful recalls, which is why cavalry morale is baked into the modifiers. From elias at nordling.nu Thu Jun 25 09:15:39 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Thu Jun 25 09:15:45 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Page Numbering In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A43241B.7090105@nordling.nu> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090625/bbe78918/attachment-0001.html From michael.waters at navy.mil Thu Jun 25 16:59:11 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Thu Jun 25 16:59:27 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables In-Reply-To: <4A4323C4.6070402@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> <4A4323C4.6070402@nordling.nu> Message-ID: > To rolls on the table. The defenders only roll for a 50% > chance of a morale reduction, so no modifiers. The table > covers both repulses and successful recalls, which is why > cavalry morale is baked into the modifiers. Then shouldn't the modifiers for line and square be reversed? Or is the idea that as soon as the Cav sees a square, it breaks off and doesn't ever get shot at. And as we're using a table rather than a die roll with a "target" number, do you want a wider range of results for the repulsed roll? Likewise, do you want the results on the Initiative table spread out so that they go 9,8,7,6 instead of 8,8,6,6 etc.? Michael Waters NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 Flight Vehicle Performance Software Development Team NAS Patuxent River Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 301-757-0595 301-342-8597 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com > [mailto:napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com] On Behalf Of Elias Nordling > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:14 > To: napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > Subject: Re: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables > > Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 skrev: > > Okay - what do the paranthesized values on the Successful > Charge vs Infantry table for? Can't find it in the rules > anywhere. It can't be a morale hit because the defender > automatically routs, and it can't be casualties on the > attacker since that's covered by the even/odd roll by the attacker. > > > That leaves stragglers, which it is :-) The idea is that > cavalry will mostly hunt down its victims, but if there are > many defenders or few cavalry, some will get away. > > Also, when and to what are the die roll modifiers at the > bottom (below the Charge repulsed table) supposed to be > applied to, exactly? > > > To rolls on the table. The defenders only roll for a 50% > chance of a morale reduction, so no modifiers. The table > covers both repulses and successful recalls, which is why > cavalry morale is baked into the modifiers. > _______________________________________________ > Napgnomes mailing list > Napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > http://yxa.extundo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/napgnomes > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090625/34f59a44/smime.bin From michael.waters at navy.mil Thu Jun 25 16:59:11 2009 From: michael.waters at navy.mil (Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2) Date: Thu Jun 25 16:59:32 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Page Numbering In-Reply-To: <4A43241B.7090105@nordling.nu> References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> <4A43241B.7090105@nordling.nu> Message-ID: The word processing software (do you use Word?) should sort it all out. I believe there is a way to fix paper size and margins so that the actual X-by-Y space for text is not dependent on whether you're printing on A4 or US Letter. Michael Waters NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 Flight Vehicle Performance Software Development Team NAS Patuxent River Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 301-757-0595 301-342-8597 (fax) > -----Original Message----- > From: napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com > [mailto:napgnomes-bounces@yxa.extundo.com] On Behalf Of Elias Nordling > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:16 > To: napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > Subject: Re: [Napgnomes] Page Numbering > > Will do, though I'm not sure the pagination will be the same > for us since we use different paper sizes. > > Waters, Michael A. CIV NAVAIR AIR 4.3.2.2 skrev: > > Could you turn the page numbering feature please. As > the rules don't have fixed numbers yet, it makes it rather > difficult to flip back and forth looking for stuff when you > don't know where you are in the first place (we in the Navy > are experts at knowing whenever it is we don't know where we are). > > Michael Waters > NAVAIR 4.3.2.2 > Flight Vehicle Performance > Software Development Team > NAS Patuxent River > Bldg 2187 Room 2A55B-01 > 301-757-0595 > 301-342-8597 (fax) > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > Napgnomes mailing list > Napgnomes@yxa.extundo.com > http://yxa.extundo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/napgnomes > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 4954 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090625/ca932720/smime.bin From elias at nordling.nu Thu Jun 25 23:35:01 2009 From: elias at nordling.nu (Elias Nordling) Date: Thu Jun 25 23:35:14 2009 Subject: [Napgnomes] Observation of the tables In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C916.6070608@nordling.nu> <4A4104DE.60305@nordling.nu> <4A411F54.6020403@nordling.nu> <4A4221B0.5040309@nordling.nu> <4A42917F.6030704@nordling.nu> <4A42A4DD.4070108@nordling.nu> <4A4323C4.6070402@nordling.nu> Message-ID: <4A43ED85.5050602@nordling.nu> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://yxa.extundo.com/pipermail/napgnomes/attachments/20090625/b8e32b94/attachment.htm